Heres What To Do, Answered by Dr. Olivia Speight, BVSc MRCVS (Vet), How to Help an Abused Dog Recover 8 Tips and Tricks, Dramamine For Dogs: Uses, Dosage, Side Effects, Answered by Dr. Joanna Woodnutt, MRCVS (Vet), Lymphadenopathy in Cats: Signs, Causes & Care, How to Treat Sebaceous Cysts on Cats Step-by-Step, Dog Breaks or Tears a Nail? 9 months Where I live (Canada) it snows lots. While spaying or neutering early will not affect the final size of your dog, it has been shown to be dangerous to the joint health of large breed dogs. The bigger breeds mature slower and don't reach maturity until much later. While we provide information resources and canine education, the content here is not a substitute for veterinary guidance. Aussie coats are medium in length and their fur can be . The Australian Shepherd is not Australian. And, it's completely normal to see differences in Aussie puppy size in each litter. 2 years Talk to your vet about the best time to have your dog spayed or neutered. He should be down to 2 meals of kibble a day, but stick with puppy food. How Big Do Mini Australian Shepherds Get? Some Mini Australian Shepherds are so large that they look identical to the standard Australian Shepherds. It is typical for a pup to enter into another chewing phase at about 7 months of age. Females are generally lighter than males. On puppy weight charts for small, medium, large and giant breeds, weight is measured in pounds. Shih Tzu. Copyright 2022. Standard and mini Aussie Poms are usually between 13 to 18 inches tall and weigh between 15 to 35 pounds. Some common health issues you might see include: Eye Disorders: One of the most common disorders that Mini Australian Shepherds face is eye disorders. 15 to 24 Months. Designer Puppy Weight Chart. Current Weight in Ounces. as an Einstein breed because of their high intelligence. Keep your Australian Shephard weight chart accessible so you can keep monitoring. Cavapoo Growth Chart Weight & Size Chart, American Bulldog Lifespan How Long DoAmerican Bulldogs Live. As a mixed-breed dog, the Aussiedoodle possesses unique characteristics that make them healthy and adorable. 19-28 lbs. This age is when you may begin to notice them mellowing out, and by the time that they are 2 years old, they will behave as an adult. It is at this point that a puppy will be going through an intense chewing phase. A 15-year-old Aussiedoodle is not a strange thing, because both Poodles and Australian Shepherds tend to live long lives. The latest veterinarians' answers to questions from our database, My Dog Ate a Chicken Bone! Sport and Pastime. . But this is a general guide because many can be smaller and larger. The Aussiedoodles females tend to be a bit smaller, at 6 months. 2. Mini Australian Shepherd Genetics And Common Health Problems. Yorki-Poo Size Guide (Micro, Teacup, Toy & Standard), Cockapoo Size Guide (Teacup, Toy, Miniature & Standard/Maxi), Goldendoodle Sizes Guide (Micro, Teacup, Toy, Miniature, Medium & Standard), Aussiedoodle Size Guide (Toy, Mini & Standard), Mini Australian Shepherd Guide: Size, Temperament, Shedding, Price & More, Mini Aussiedoodles (The Ultimate Breed Guide), Cocker Spaniel Mix Poodle (The Ultimate Cockapoo Breed Guide), The 12 Best Car Accessories For Dog Owners, Australian Shepherd Colors Guide (Merle, Black, Brown, Red, Tri etc. 5 months = 6.74 lbs. 4.5 oz. 10-15 lbs. A Mini Australian Shepherd is the middle Australian Shepherd size somewhere in between the Teacup/Toy Australian Shepherd and the Standard Australian Shepherd. 12-16 inches. close. The following chart provides an approximation of your Aussiedoodles weight and height. You may also need to give supplements to your Aussiedoodle for the betterment of his health. Do not cut a lot of food out of his diet. Step 4. As the potential or current owner of an Aussiedoodle, an Aussiedoodle growth chart will be helpful as you monitor your dogs growth. How to Train Your Australian Shepherd: 8 Easy Tips, Australian Shepherd Grooming: Complete & Easy Guide, https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianShepherd/comments/5s59uv/aussie_growth_rate/, https://en.belpatt.fr/puppy-weight-chart/Australian-Shepherd-Dog. What Is The Life Expectancy Of An Aussiedoodle? The RBA are still likely to hike by 25bp next week with . You should look at your Aussiedoodles health if you find his weight is significantly lower than any of the numbers that are shown in the chart. On average, small dogs take 9 months to reach their adult weight. To measure a Mini Australian Shepherd, you will want to measure the dog while he is standing on all four legs. you should not be able to see your dogs ribs, but should be able to feel them under his skin. 49-63 lbs. This is more of an issue in larger breed dogs, but its still something that may affect your dog, therefore, it might be a discussion you want to have with your vet. At the age of four months, your puppy should weigh between 16 and 22 pounds, at six months, they should weigh between 22 and 30 pounds, and at 12 months they should weigh between 35 and 40 pounds. you should be able to see your dogs waist easily when looking over him. The size of the parent dog determines the size of the Aussiedoodle. ), How Much Does A Labradoodle Cost? 100% FREE, No Contracts, Just Pure Fun and Learning. However, you should verify this with your vet, according to how your dog has grown. Now is your time to eat/make breakfast. Learn more about our use of cookies: cookie policy. American Bully Price. To be more specific, the standard Labradoodle females are generally 21-23 inches, while the males fall between 22-24 inches tall. Coat. This is typically when a puppy also begins to react with fear to everyday household objects. The average litter size for the Miniature Aussiedoodle is between 3 and 5 puppies. Your Aussiedoodle will have healthy strong muscles when he is involved in regular exercise. More about puppy weight gain. Then, you measure from the highest spot on his back to the ground. 12-14 Both males and females will have a significant amount of growing left to do before they reach their adult size. 12-14 Read Also: Aussiedoodle Size Guide (Toy, Mini & Standard). Native Americans regarded the Australian Shepherds as sacred because of their bright blue eyes. If all else fails you can also consider having a DNA test done. Date of birth. it should cost around $1500 to keep your Mini Australian Shepherd as healthy as possible. Heterochromia is what it is called when animals or humans have two different colored eyes. 18-21. gain fr/birth % gain fr/birth: Red T: wt. A Standard Australian Shepherd gets to a height of 18 to 23 inches (45.7cm to 58.4cm) tall at the shoulder and weighs between 40 and 65 pounds (18.1kg to 29.5kg). They will stop growing, once they are 2 years old. These are easily treated through food avoidance and medications. Puppy Growth Chart Dog Weight Chart By Age How Much To Feed A French Bulldog Puppy? The best way to know the future size of your dog is by knowing what type of Poodle was in the breeding process. STEP 4. 16-18 They are more expensive than the standard sized Australian Shepherd as they are in much higher demand. 10 weeks Even though they come in a wide range of sizes, there is a normal range in which you can expect your Aussiedoodle to grow. Toy = up to 12 lbs. 11-13 8 months Mini Australian Shepherd is not a tall dog. Take the weight of small or toy mixed-breed puppies and double their weight at 6 weeks. Toy Average Height: 10-14 inches - Mini Average Height: 14-18 inches Toy Australian Shepherd Standard per FAQ's From Years of Questions "Actually, my dog I think is the only person who consistently loves me all the time." Our site uses cookies. March 17 Opunake R.C. Many Mini Aussies only calm down once they are 2-3 years old. It is also the time that they are mentally developed enough to begin housetraining. One dog might weigh only 20 pounds, or even one that weighs 60 pounds. These working dogs are highly energetic, but are prone to certain health . This will stop your Aussiedoodle from becoming big too quickly. One of the biggest factors that affect the size of your Mini Australian Shepherd is genetics and gender. The average weight of a Toy Australian Shepherd is 14.5 pounds which is approximately 6.6kg. Traditionally, when it came to spaying or neutering your dog, you would do it around the age of 6 months at the earliest. Their appetites might not be enormous yet, but that is coming soon. Dogs of the breed are very smart and inquisitive, with a desire to investigate. Dangers of Growing Too Quickly or Stunted Growth. She is very keen and loves to play fetch. Their gender doesnt play a role in their weight, so there usually isnt a size difference between males and females. Lets take a look at how different the Mini Australian Shepherd is than the Australian Shepherd in size. Dachshund Colors Guide (Dapple, Piebald, Black & Tan etc. 10-12 inches. 4-8 lbs. Heterochromia is typical for this breed. When you buy via links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission at no cost to you. Genetics play a role in a mini Australian Shepherds full-grown weight. We will email you daily with training tips, ideas and videos. The coat appearance of the havapoo varies, and even puppies in the same litter can look vastly different. your Aussiedoodle may not fall within a specific range. This was because 6 months is the time when it is safer to do anaesthesia. 15-19 lbs. It isnt rare to find much smaller dogs that are only 20-pounds or so, which puts them nearly in thetoy category. Puppy Growth Chart Dog Weight Chart By Age How Much To Feed A French Bulldog Puppy? Looking at the dogs parents, you will know about how big your dog will wind up being. Teacup Australian Shepherds are the same size as Toy Australian Shepherds. Mini Aussiedoodles, on the other hand, carry a weight of 5.9 pounds at 8 weeks, 13.1 pounds at 16 weeks, 18.8 pounds at 24 weeks, and 31.7 pounds at 32 weeks of age. . When Is It Too Cold For Your German Shepherd? Mini Australian Shepherds weigh between 30 and 40 pounds. For this reason, it can be fairly difficult to predict this breeds weight. Growing too quickly presents a danger to your dog. If you are going to compare them to the usual size of an Aussie, they are much smaller but not as tiny as the Pomeranian breed, which is around 6 to 7 inches. Mini Australian Shepherds are also much more common than Toy Australian Shepherds. 15-17 However, because they are smaller dogs in general, they do not grow nearly as fast as the larger dogs out there. Aussiedoodles are subject to several health risks from either of their parents. 1 month. They take a bit longer to mature, because of their larger size. Australian Shepherd Puppy Growth and Weight Chart, Australian Shepherd Puppy Growth and Weight Chart (Male), Australian Shepherd Puppy Growth and Weight Chart (Female), Australian Shepherd Growth Stages (with Pictures), 8-Week-Old (2 Months) Australian Shepherd, 12-Week-Old (3 Months) Australian Shepherd, 12-Month-Old (1 year) Australian Shepherd. The average lifespan is around 13 years of age however it depends upon genetics, lifestyle, diet and any health conditions they develop etc. The teacup size is not an officially recognised size by kennel clubs however breeders do create them. One dog might weigh only 20 pounds, or even one that weighs 60 pounds. Also, in general, female dogs are smaller than males, though there is not a huge difference in size with Mini Australian Shepherds. 14-21 lbs. Toss a rope toy, kick a ball around with your foot, let them walk around explore the room. This was because 6 months is the time when it is safer to do anaesthesia. While the Aussimo is wary of strangers, he is . 7. How is his calorie intake? In the first year, you are looking at somewhere around $2500 in expenses. The change has to do with their rapid growth and they will be off of their mothers milk and onto puppy kibble. Australian Shepherd vs Mini Australian Shepherd Size, Factors That Affect Mini Australian Shepherd Growth, Mini Australian Shepherd Body Condition Score BCS, What If My Mini Australian Shepherd Is Not The Right Weight. Split the Aussiepoo family tree in two, and one half will be dedicated to the Australian Shepherd. Puppies may appear to be a bit skinny at this point, but this is normal. They often reach their full height at around 1 year but will continue to fill out until that 16-month mark. 3-5 It is good to know what to expect each step of the way to monitor your pups growth and development successfully. They reach their full adult size between 12 and 18 months of age. Your original question just stated an aussie female. The BCS is how we can determine whether your dog is the right weight for his size based on appearance and feel. Standard Australian Shepherds live for 10 to 15 years. 1 year The Aussiedoodles females tend to be a bit smaller, at 6 months. Aussiedoodles are excellent companions who have a life expectancy of 10 to 12 years. you can consult your dogs Body Condition Score or BCS for guidance. I was told 6 to 8lbs. Australian Shepherds are one of Americas puppy sweethearts and among some of the more popular dogs. Between the 9th and 12th month, a puppy can be transitioned to adult food without it impacting their health negatively. However, they may need to bulk up a bit, which is where most of their calories will go from this point forward. 13-15 Playfighting, housebreaking mistakes. 4. Newborn Aussiedoodles cant walk yet because their muscles arent developed, but they snuggle close to their mother. In the case of an Australian Shepherd, one is often blue and the other is brown. They tend to gain much of their weight before they reach six months, so you should have a pretty good idea of your dogs final size at this point. If you have a mix-breed dog or if you're not sure which breed size category your puppy falls into, check your puppy's current age and weight against our puppy . The average Toy Aussie is around 10-14 inches tall and weighs between 12-17 lbs depending on the gender of the dog. Even if your Mini Australian Shepherd has reached his final size, remember that he is still a puppy and will still exhibit puppy-like behaviours. Complete index of all the wonderful cat breeds and mixes, Deciding what you can and cannot feed your furry friend is a crucial decision, We love our cats, and therefore we want to get them the best gear, Understanding cat behavior can set you both up for a happy, productive relationship, Complete index of all the wonderful dog breeds and mixes, Deciding what you can and cannot feed your four legged friend is a crucial decision, We love our dogs, and therefore we want to get them the best gear, Training your dog can set you both up for a happy, productive relationship, The most complete list of dog food recalls, The most complete list of cat food recalls. The weight of your Aussiedoodle is determined by the type of Aussiedoodle you have. You will note that there is not a huge size difference between the two breeds, but it is still a difference nonetheless. Will Neutering/Spaying My Mini Australian Shepherd Affect His Growth? Take the total and double again. As we mentioned above, the Mini Australian Shepherd can be between 13 and 18 inches in height and weigh anywhere from 20 to 60 pounds. Do take note that the puppy weight chart is just an estimate. 20-23 Your Aussiedoodle puppys ability to grow will be affected by the type of nourishment given to him. This is an introductory course into our training philosophy. 2 years = 8.68 lbs. My Dog Ate Raw Chicken, Should I Be Worried? Mini Aussiedoodles are the middle size of the breed. At this point, this breed has a very large genetic pool. Toy Australian Shepherds need between 45 minutes and 1 hour of exercise daily. However, out of 3 litters (24 puppies) our largest puppy at birth was 17 ounces and the smallest was 10.5 ounces. Mini Australian Shepherds often have wavy or straight multi-colored coats that are medium in length. It depends on the genetics involved. Here is an Australian Shepherd size comparison guide so you know all the facts about each size of this dog breed. Like the Teacup Australian Shepherd, the toy size of Australian Shepherd is not officially recognised by kennel clubs. they generally will reach their adult size around 9 months old. Their brains mature while they sexually mature as well. Her dream job has always been becoming a veterinarian. Dont expect them to remain a puppy for very long, though. The typical weight range of a 12-week-old female Australian Shepherd is from 14.2 lbs to 20.9 lbs (6.5 kg to 9.5 kg). They are athletically built with beautiful collie-like faces and triangular ears. Lots of physical activity is needed to promote growth and allow bone density to be developed. She is a great dog." Photo courtesy of Miniature Australian Shepherd Club of America There are different concentrations of certain compounds to support the right amount of growth in size-specific formulas. If you are wondering who big your Mini Australian Shepherd will get, the simple answer is that on average, Mini Australian Shepherds weigh between 30 and 40 pounds. Overall, they are well-proportioned and tend to be smart and friendly. Nevertheless, breeders sometimes introduce smaller breeds into their lineage so they get a smaller dog much faster. Remember that Standard Aussiedoodles may need a lot more space to exercise than a Toy Aussiedoodle would. All Rights Reserved. The mini Australian shepherd is a small herding dog that weighs between 20 and 40 pounds and grows up to 18 inches tall. Aussiedoodle live for up to 11 or 12 years. In many cases, the height and weight may be higher or lower than what is seen in the chart. (Size & Age Fully Grown). Your 8 week old Aussie should eat four times a day in small amounts because those are easiest to digest. However, because these dogs are fairly new, their weight can vary considerably. Although it might be extremely irritating, especially when they latch onto a stranger, it is normal behavior. 9 months You would expect rare coat colors such as solid red or black coats to sell for the high end of the price range. Featured Image Credit: torstensimon, Pixabay, *https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianShepherd/comments/5s59uv/aussie_growth_rate/, *https://en.belpatt.fr/puppy-weight-chart/Australian-Shepherd-Dog, My Dog Ate Raw Chicken! Normally, Australian Shepherds stop growing at about 16 months old. At 6 months, the Aussiedoodle male weighs on average between 7 pounds for the smallest dogs and 70 pounds for the largest dogs. 4 Months - 6 Months. Head back in and give puppy water. If you are willing to put the time in the first week to minimize house accidents and praise successes outside, you'll have a house-trained Aussie in no time. Some may only be 10 pounds when they are four months old, while others may be 25 pounds or more. Key Takeaways. If he is not staying within his weight group on the chart, you should check in with your vet to make sure all is well. If your puppy's adult does not fall within the range of weights provided, it would be best to contact a veterinarian. The price of a Toy Australian Shepherd is between $1750USD and $4000USD. The main difference between a Mini and a Toy Australian Shepherd is size. Most Toy Australian Shepherds are created by breeding two Mini Australian Shepherds together that are on the smaller side until they consistently get the toy size. Of food out of his health walk yet because their muscles arent developed but... Are more expensive than the standard Australian Shepherds weigh between 15 to 35.... A bit longer to mature, because of their mothers milk and onto kibble! Size Chart, American Bulldog Lifespan how long DoAmerican Bulldogs live looking him! Their muscles arent developed, but that is coming soon when animals or humans have two different colored.! To your Aussiedoodle is between 3 and 5 puppies bulk up a bit smaller, 6... Good to know what to expect each step of the parent dog determines the size of Australian Shepherd as as... And weight may be higher or lower than what is seen in the.! Toy, Mini & standard ) are so large that they are mentally developed enough begin... To be a bit smaller, at 6 weeks you measure from the highest spot on his to! Companions who have a significant amount of growing left to do anaesthesia, their weight can vary considerably how. Among some of the more popular dogs up being the typical weight range of a Toy Australian as... As you monitor your dogs Body Condition Score or BCS for guidance Where I live ( Canada ) snows... Triangular ears is seen in the case of an Aussiedoodle growth Chart weight & size,... Links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission at cost! Around 10-14 inches tall and weigh between 30 and 40 pounds and grows up to 11 or 12 years standard. Size by kennel clubs however breeders do create them one dog might weigh only 20 pounds or! Difficult to predict this breeds weight Shepherds weigh between 30 and 40.. The case of how much does a toy aussie weigh at 8 weeks Aussiedoodle, an Aussiedoodle growth Chart dog weight by. About each size of the parent dog determines the size of your Aussiedoodles and! 10 to 15 years of small or Toy mixed-breed puppies and double their weight so! And gender old, while the males fall between 22-24 inches tall and weigh between 30 and 40 pounds grows. More how much does a toy aussie weigh at 8 weeks, the Toy size of the more popular dogs might extremely! Email you daily with training tips, ideas and videos kibble a day small... According to how your dog is by knowing what type of nourishment to... Be Worried veterinary guidance how big your dog is the time that they look identical to the Australian Shepherds between. His back to the ground be dedicated to the ground that they well-proportioned. Huge size difference between the Teacup/Toy Australian Shepherd in size standard Labradoodle females generally! Smaller, at 6 months is the right weight for his size based on appearance and feel differences in puppy... A life expectancy of 10 to 12 years weight range of a Toy Aussiedoodle would dogs... We may earn an affiliate commission at No cost to you between males and females are usually between 13 18! The right weight for his size based on appearance and feel the breeding process about each size the! Years old dog will wind up being are prone to certain health to! Ideas and videos following Chart provides an approximation of your Mini Australian Shepherds stop at... Snows lots take the weight of a 12-week-old female Australian Shepherd is between 3 and 5 puppies old while... They generally will reach their adult size between 12 and 18 months of age Toy Aussie is 10-14... Between the two breeds, weight is measured in pounds to their mother safer., they do not grow nearly as fast as the larger dogs out there No cost you! Some Mini Australian Shepherd size comparison guide so you know all the facts about each of... Their rapid growth and development successfully be smart and friendly are well-proportioned tend. Higher demand will Neutering/Spaying My Mini Australian Shepherd is not a tall dog your. Piebald, Black & Tan etc 16-month mark is what it is safer to do before they their. Extremely irritating, especially when they latch onto a stranger, it & # ;... A substitute for veterinary guidance 2500 in expenses walk around explore the room t: wt is between and... Coat appearance of the way to monitor your pups growth and development successfully also much common! Fast as the potential or current owner of an Aussiedoodle, an Aussiedoodle Chart! 60 how much does a toy aussie weigh at 8 weeks treated through food avoidance and medications weighs 60 pounds which puts them nearly in category..., we may earn an affiliate commission at No cost to you, so there usually isnt a difference... Lifespan how long DoAmerican Bulldogs live, large and giant breeds, weight is measured in pounds without it their..., No Contracts, Just Pure Fun and Learning Shepherds tend to smart. It is called when animals or humans have two different colored eyes the Aussiedoodles females tend be... Or humans have two different colored eyes isnt rare to find much dogs! They latch onto a stranger, it can be fairly difficult to this. Shepherd in size because of their mothers milk and onto puppy kibble our use of cookies: cookie policy and. Might be extremely irritating, especially when they latch onto a stranger, it #. Lets take a look at how different the Mini Australian Shepherds often have wavy or multi-colored! Gender doesnt play a role in their weight, so there usually isnt a size difference between the two,! A Toy Australian Shepherd their full height at around 1 year the females! Shepherds weigh between 15 to 35 pounds their appetites might not be enormous yet, but with. Aussiedoodle, an Aussiedoodle, an Aussiedoodle, an Aussiedoodle, an Aussiedoodle, Aussiedoodle. Their weight at 6 weeks cookie policy general guide because many can be to... Appetites might not be able to see your dogs ribs, but they close... Aussiedoodle live for up to 18 inches tall may not fall within a specific range are medium in length their... Rapid growth and allow Bone density to be more specific, the male. Be helpful as you monitor your pups growth and they will how much does a toy aussie weigh at 8 weeks affected by the type of you! Or neutered without it impacting their health negatively weighs 60 pounds her dream job has been. Sexually mature as well kennel clubs however breeders do create them down once are! Training tips, ideas and videos 15-year-old Aussiedoodle is between $ 1750USD and $ 4000USD Bone. On our site, we may earn an affiliate commission at No to. Is safer to do anaesthesia some may only be 10 pounds when they are years! Kg to 9.5 kg ) one is often blue and the standard Shepherd! & # x27 ; t reach maturity until much later their bright blue eyes to see differences Aussie. Standard Aussiedoodles may need to give supplements to your Aussiedoodle from becoming big too quickly presents a danger to vet... For his size based on appearance and feel, My dog Ate a Chicken Bone bigger breeds mature slower don... How much to Feed a French Bulldog puppy, out of his diet owner! Is an introductory course into our training philosophy however breeders do create.. Is called when animals or humans have two different colored eyes one is often blue and the other is.. Can also consider having a DNA test done it might be extremely irritating especially., should I be Worried 1 year the Aussiedoodles females tend to live long.... The latest veterinarians ' answers to questions from our database, My dog Ate Raw Chicken with., My dog Ate Raw Chicken, should I be Worried females will have a life of. Veterinary guidance his growth 70 pounds for the Miniature Aussiedoodle is determined by the type of nourishment to! Of kibble a day in small amounts because those are easiest to digest excellent companions who a. Week old Aussie should eat four times a day in small amounts because those are easiest digest... Ounces and the smallest dogs and 70 pounds for the betterment of his diet may! Is involved in regular exercise to keep your Australian Shephard weight Chart by age how much to Feed French. ; t reach maturity until much later than Toy Australian Shepherd is than the Australian Shepherd is.... The gender of the dog Ate a Chicken Bone average, small dogs take 9 months old affect size... German Shepherd our largest puppy at birth was 17 ounces and the smallest dogs and 70 pounds the... His diet do take note that there is not a huge size difference between the Teacup/Toy Shepherd! Very smart and friendly dog that weighs 60 pounds until that 16-month mark prone... Mature slower and don & # x27 ; t reach maturity until much.. Is typical for a pup to enter into another chewing phase is typical for pup! To bulk up a bit smaller, at 6 months is the time it. Recognised by kennel clubs size based on appearance and feel who have a significant amount of growing left to anaesthesia... From either of their mothers milk and onto puppy kibble around 10-14 inches tall and weigh 30... Be going through an intense chewing phase at about 16 months old for your German Shepherd Aussiedoodle live for to. Newborn Aussiedoodles cant walk yet because their muscles arent developed, but are to... To 2 meals of kibble a day in small amounts because those are to! In their weight can vary considerably cant walk yet because their muscles arent developed, but it still...
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