How many have you all lead to Christ? Would you consider making a tax-deductible donation to help our journalists continue to report the truth and restore the church? Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. When I watched his stepping back/pride/ sin talk, I wanted to either vomit or laugh out loud.. If you call Christ a savior then learn to make Him Todd loves and worships money and attention. Did he stay and open his churches to the people that were cold and hungry? Positional authority deals with executing responsibilities within an organization, like a general in an army, the president of bank, or the pastor of a church. however, since evangelical leaders have redefined gossip to mean dont rock the boat to protect their power, careers, and revenue, can you explain what you mean by gossip? Its upto Him. .. .amazing. and oversee the spiritual interests of our church body. You may be thinking of a different Todd Wagner, who is a longtime partner of Mark Cuban. I dont know what the tax rate is near Watermark but I doubt I could afford just the taxes & insurance on that house. If youre short on time, start at 27 minutes when the speakers starts explaining why people think Watermark is a cult. This process is called Community Formation (formerly GroupLink). To the unsuspecting eye, everything contained in this document may seem legitimate or customary as far as church membership goes. First and foremost- this is a season that God is shaking things up. Spiritual authority has nothing to do with title, education, or rhetorical ability (2 Cor 10-13). Being your authentic self in community with others is the goal, they say. Is this standard really higher or is it just more specific? Before coming to Watermark, I never knew the Bible could be applied to my life. Its inappropriate and wrong for a pastor serving the church to live an opulent lifestyle. The building and nine acres of land located in an area of Dallas that has a predominant minority population were purchased by the evangelical church for $211,000, according to a government document. It was meant to jerk everyones chain. have caused them to *go astray,*. In layman's terms, that means all decisions concerning the governance of the church are made by the elders, not by the members. Religious double talk. To become a member, there are certain things with which a person has to be in agreement, of course; but if a person becomes an elder, then what is expected is more clearly defined. There are many issues at Watermark. I would be ok disclosing financial information to my community group. Could just be their abilities to appear a certain way up in front of a crowd. Sure, lets not address anything that is rumored to be strange about Watermark and say that Jesus sounded cultish. . Theyre all using so much jargon that its hard to figure out what any of it actually means. Watermark Community church says it relies on this New Testament passage to justify its policy of disciplining members: "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. When this article was written, Having been a Watermark (now CityBridge) member since 2016 have never EVER heard these messages thatSusan speaks of. So Leventhal resigned several weeks before Wagner, but theyre announcing this together, on the same day? Gotcha. On the cult thing: LIsten to this longer presentation from a high school ministry event. He then applied the words Paul used to describe his apostolic ministry in Acts 20:26-32 to his own tenure at Watermark: With a clear conscience, Im going to say this to you, Wagner said. Kind of smarmy too. Why do you throw a stone (more likely without looking at yourselves first). Im only surprised it took 15 years. Arguing that the bishops are not enforcing the denomination's doctrines, the churches seek to leave The United Methodist Church with property and transfer to a breakaway denomination. I have edited some of her answers for content and length. Oh, I wouldnt be so sure of that. (How many of you have actually prayed for Todd)? What a bizarre statement. At this link, you will find lots of information about how their community groups operate. Not in your writing, but in the people who felt that they were being personally attacked and never took the time to speak to a leader or to actually consider the teachings that are found in the Bible. He publicly criticized other local church leaders and called them out in the media and then doesnt really share his issues. Hi. Aside from the fact that it was gifted to him (alarming at the very least) it shows poor stewardship and lack of humility on Wagners part. In principle it was excellent. Prestonwood Baptist also made the list (top 20) and its nowhere near a cult. indoor plumbing plumbing would be a luxury. File photo of fans at a Dallas Stars . He counseled my former fiance and after several meetings with him my fiance broke up the engagement and I was left devastated. Theres no independent authority (like a congregational vote or a higher denominational officer) that can remove an elder in this government structure. Mickey makes it sound like the decision for Todd to resign was something weve arrived at due to events. Staff. Amy Smith of the blog Watchkeep has documented her experience there, and it bears much of the hallmarks of a cult. Opinion: What is Revivaland is it Happening at Asbury? Did he stay to minister to anyone in need? I cannot imagine that Jesus, given all options, would choose to live among the wealthiest citizens in the most landscaped, luxurious part of the city. Many won't perform gay marriage. Mind Games The Bizarre & Controling Culture of trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Susan says she is now happy to be away from Watermark Church and is healing. Watermark is a community of faithful, creative, authentic Christ-followers who are united in one purpose: to be and make disciples of Jesus. As a result, at least 19 diocese and religious orders have had to file for bankruptcy. In this murky situation, however, the two men dont need honorary titles. Then check your heart. and so much mimicked behavior amongst the group. Why all the allusion? If you arent a covenant member at Watermark Church, you cant join a community group, and that is where all the getting involved starts. Im not saying that the Watermark Todd Wagner lives in a shack, by any means. Todd had 6 children living at home at the time he was gifted the home.. Thats for God to reveal or conceal. He added that there are just too many layers and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here., Both Wagner and Leventhal will remain at Watermark as elders emeritus, though the church said it is proactively pursuing men to add to the Elder team., According to the church website, Wagner and Leventhal will spend time with their families preparing for whatever the Lord has next.. Ive been at Watermark for 7 years and experienced people in my community group leaving the church; there are NO such requirements or stipulations that prevent you from leaving the group or the church entirely. It shocks me how much fear this church has put inside of the people who dared leave it. It is mentioned in this article. The Christian Post's Leonardo Blair wrote an eyeopening post titled Dallas megachurch pastor who confessed to sin of pride resigns. Ill happily answer any questions, but for any Believers here I would strongly encourage you to first take this to the Lord in prayer, then His word, and then ask yourself if its healthy or wise or appropriate to make such claims about a person / place you know almost nothing about. Maybe Im straining at a gnat. He found my blog while researching the similarities between Scientology and Watermark Church. Bought the house without telling Todd and gifted it to his name without filling him in on the plans to give it to him. Watermark is very good at many things but also very bad at a few. i felt like i was watching and listening to animated cardboard characters. no one was threatening him he deliberately chose to live as the 1%, say yes & accept it, move in and make it his home. A former member of Shekinah Church, who lost a lawsuit against Shinn in which she alleged he swindled her out of $4 million, has issued a dire warning for those who have been lured into the. And some community groups are less intense. Spiritual authority influences others toward Gods purposes. There are 2 Todd Wagners in Dallas. Jackson Elliott contributed to this report. Wagner blatantly blasphemed Holy Scripture, hence your whitewash of content and material issues. Log In. He comes back, preaches, and the elder board is moving forward with reinstating him and Leventhal has qualms about it. Which still seems excessive for a follower of Jesus. You can see it on their instagram! They did create it. Another $ maker? I expect to see Todd again, doing the same things in the future hell probably run another church the same way he intended to run Watermark. I dont know folks.if you have to go online and record a video to explain how your church is not a cult..this might lead into a Jeff Foxworthy joke! How many times have you actually talked to Todd? We see this is the third article this month youve found worth reading. Watermark exists to be and make more fully devoted followers of Christ, looking to God's Word as our only authority, conscience and guide. In the beginning of the video, his co-host Adam Tarrow says he went on a Google search and typed in best cults in Dallas and Watermark Church was #1 on the list. Wagner is all about control and he lost it. Or you perfect? Of course, God has a very different definition of success than we do. My perception is this former member did take their concerns to leadership. I was informed that this was a gift from a wealthy individual who has known Todd a long time and does not attend Watermark. Even through this challenges we can be so judgements these day. This gives freedom to members who may still be working through some of their beliefs while also holding the elders to a higher standard. If I was a member of this church my motivation for remaining or leaving would be almost entirely based upon trying to figure out what happened in an effort to understand if the leadership is healthy or unhealthy. Then there is the whole LakeRead more . Let me guessthe PASTORS of this church DONT have to be real and disclose THEIR salaries, sins, struggles.right???? Take advantage of extra customization tools by signNow. Speculation, in this context, equates to gossip, and at its heart, is pride. Im Jesus name. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. yes, things do not add up. A man and a woman who sued Watermark Community Church over threats to disclose an alleged affair have dropped the suit, both sides said Tuesday. like hes a programmed automaton. My daughter occasionally attends their weekly singles service, The Porch, which she enjoys. A major focus of the Community Groups at Watermark and many other churches is to foster the development of deep connection with a small group of fellow believers that enables true Christian accountability. Todd Wagner was preaching. It would be hard to set a dollar amount on what is reasonable and what is lavish. He could have sold the house when it was gifted to him, bought a home more in line with a humble servant leader, and donated the additional proceeds to the church. Are you calling smarmy, insincere? Wowza, what does Whoopie have to do with this? There are no congregational votes nor do individual members have a 'say' in how things are handled. Case Summary. The church was founded on Biblical principles from families that really love the Lord. Most people in the U.S. have a lavish lifestyle compared to most believers around the world. Regardless we know Romans 8:28 maybe its a season of 2 Tim 3:16-17. Paul, thanks for the response. Yet, Mickey Friedrich says: [dont] try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong, and that even Friedrich and Thompson land at a different place than (Leventhal and Wagner) regarding why weve arrived here.. He could have thanked his friend for his generosity, and politely declined the gift, suggesting he would love for the proceeds from the resale of the house be donated to a local homeless charity instead. There is so much judgement on here it has to hurt the heart of God. Churches that utilize a confession like the Westminster, 1689, or the 39 articles seem comfortable requiring specificity in their doctrine for both members and pastors I think this is more transparent, and thus healthier, than having two statements. The only remaining elders at Watermark are Mickey Friedrich and Kyle Thompson, though a third man, Blake Holmes, has been named a candidate for eldership. The over-humility seems fake, like false humility. We did one a week, so this stretch over several weeks. Best wishes to the church members, though. Its how relationships are formed and accountability is established or thats what they want you to think. When I received the email from *Susan (pseudonym), a former Watermark Church member, she wrote, I am not the only former Watermarker out there who is nervous to speak up about this organization, because I refuse to call them a church.. Our post-modern tendency is to use culture as a reference point, not the Bible. He did end the video by defining what HE thought the three marks of a cult were: Im going to address #3, because I did my own Google search of the Dallas County Central Appraisal District and discovered that Todd Wagner lives in a $1.5 million dollar home in a very prestigious area of Dallas. Evangelical Church. What does being your authentic self really mean, in the context of community groups? Having said that,Read more . Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account. And in Ecclesiastes 12:14, For God will bring every deedRead more , I would be curious to know if you are ok with disclosing all of your financial information to your community group and seeking their approval on life decisions? Listening for root issues and how they cause hurt for make more senses than listening to reply in a sermon. I went to a church with a broadly evangelical membership statement coupled with a specifically Calvinistic, and specifically young earth creationist, teaching statement. My challenge to Susan is to give citations for the quotes she gives. All white and all men has nothing to do with anything. He began to consider that he was in a cult. Friends, theres a lot of speculation here. Elder Mickey Friedrich then urged the church not to try and judge whose version of events is right or wrong. Did You Know This Church Is Closely Aligned with 9 Marx (sic) It is Lord that gives and takes it away. Also resigned is David Leventhal, an elder and teaching pastor at Watermark, who said he had lost trust in Wagners leadership. I did not have a chance to read the article you wrote, but I will get to it as soon as I can. OK. Im confused about your statement that the crowd Jesus drew wanted to see him tortured to death in the most cruel way possible. Problem with a church goers these days is (they are simply judgmental- half the time without any knowledge or discernment. This way, when a person is ready to become a member, they know exactly what they are signing up for. The reason for this is because, as an elder, he will be responsible for teaching others. Reply in a sermon to this longer presentation from a wealthy individual has... He found my blog while researching the similarities between Scientology and Watermark church and is healing comes,. School ministry event what the tax rate is near Watermark but I will get it. 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